Curse

Weezer_Blue · Jun 25, 2005, 11:25 AM // 11:25

The above post is very intelligent, in my oppinion.

To KaPe...

No. But don't ridicule me for stating my oppinions. And don't put words in my mouth either. I said "not very good"... not "suck". But if you want to interpret it that way, go ahead.

You can go ahead and bow before me if you want, I don't mind. You can join in with the other worshippers of Weezerism.

As for this entire thread, if the original poster speaks the truth, well... Bye.

As for people who say "just leave" or "quit whining"

- I paid 50 bucks for a game that was falsely advertised. If you bought a car and someone said "it goes from zero to 60 in 3 seconds", and then you bought it and it took you 8 seconds, would you be pissed? How bout if during the test drive, it was fantastic, but then somewhere between that you and you filling out the paperwork, someone put a different engine in it? Yeah. Shut up. I want the game I paid for, or I want my money back - but that's not an option.

- I'm not going to "quit whining". Because at least I'm complaining about the game so that the devs may change it. What are you complaining about? My complaining. Thanks for starting a flame fest, jackass. "Damnit! This car is completely different from 10 minutes ago!" (random bystander): "Quit your bitching! It's fiiiiiiine!"

Fantras · Jun 25, 2005, 11:41 AM // 11:41

You have a point. I can understand that. I don't agree with it, but you have one. We reserve the right to get bored to tears with hearing it over and over and over and... you get the point. That is where the ire comes from. Good luck in your endeavours, and hopefully Anet will shut you up soon

Weezer_Blue · Jun 25, 2005, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantras

You have a point. I can understand that. I don't agree with it, but you have one. We reserve the right to get bored to tears with hearing it over and over and over and... you get the point. That is where the ire comes from. Good luck in your endeavours, and hopefully Anet will shut you up soon

Lets hope

Xellos · Jun 25, 2005, 11:51 AM // 11:51

The main thing is that the UAS had blinded most of the PVPists. Everyone knew no way in hell retail would have UAS, some tried to blindly say it would, and others said the grind would be fine. Here's the problem.

Since Anet obviously slacked off in the skills distribution (hellllo, they frigging use to have SOOO much skills even in ASCALON, now they have like what? 2 that you wouldn't have?). Remember PVE is only replayable if you can do things different. Having a very limited amount of skills in every location, making some locations ridiculous, and most of the skills rather useless for that part of the story, all contributes to a sucky ass pve experience.

You can't blame Anet entirely. Take the example of warcraft 3. The developer team was stressed as hell and couldn't make much decisions. Balance issues came in left and right, and how many of you believed that the playerbase was even near 50% unbiased, and would you expect them to magically figure out who knew what the hell they were talking about while the others just had crap coming out of their mouth? Anet didn't want to buy a bucketload of listerine again.

So what did they do? They figured, since it's a RPG somewhat, people will have that mindset. They used the PVE to give them time. I mean think about it, IF people did not get bored and continued playing and giving feedback, do you really think Anet wouldn't have the time to fix it? Please. Casual PVPists probably will take a year before they get all their skills, and by then, the expansion can come out, money rolls in, and your fixes are probably here by then. Then they can worry about the expansion.

The problem is, they didn't make the PVE buffer fun. It's not. Underworld is the exact same as how you would beat a game of super mario. Bowser isn't smart, a two year old can outsmart his programmed AI. Same with the creatures in Guild Wars. Different terrain had nothing to do with anything, and skill variation didn't matter at all. Has anyone ever picked a ranger, and said "well for the ascalon missions, ill use XYZ, then for frost gate, i'll use ABC". Hell no. The only reason to ever replace skills is that you get better ones for the general PVP outlook. The second you get tigers fury, your already solid as a marksman. Where's the strategy?

So what happens now? Sure their still fine for the first couple years, no way would they go out of business unless they screw up bad, but they've already shown a bad impression to casual PVPists.

On a side note, Guild Wars has a few core design flaws when it comes to "the next big game". Sure, it is definately awesome, the balance is great, but if you really want to understand why it's a flaw, take a look at how Warcraft 3 sank and how it's different approach from Starcraft potentially ruined it. A hint, too much tightly packed team emphasis, just like Warcraft 3.

With that said, Guild Wars can definately become greater, but unless you change it drastically, it'll always have flaws that will stress the developers. And for developers, they're priority is the expansion, because that's what makes the money, not keeping you people happy and stressing their servers. So in short, Anet probably knew this would be a hard road to take, but they took it anyway. Let's see how far they go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantras

You have a point. I can understand that. I don't agree with it, but you have one. We reserve the right to get bored to tears with hearing it over and over and over and... you get the point. That is where the ire comes from. Good luck in your endeavours, and hopefully Anet will shut you up soon

Don't be silly, I doubt half the forums can even see the limited perspective I've given, at this point, the people who go "stop whining" are the people who knows that Gravity exists, but have no idea how Gravity works. Posts like these are to enlighten those who can start to understand it, so bugger off. If you don't critisize, you can't possibly make improvements. And sharing critisizm gives a higher chance for many other people other then yourself to use their perspectives to find a better solution.

Fantras · Jun 25, 2005, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Bugger off yourself. I reserve the right to be bored to tears with this whole argument, and to be aggrivated with your guys inclination to keep bringing it up over and over again. Good luck in your endeavours, and for my part, I hope they succeed so people like you will STFU

warban · Jun 25, 2005, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Really we can't judge the pvp rewards system untill it comes out. Im hoping for the best.
But if the system is able to get everyone to pvp with a required build that the guild wants within 1 hour ill be happy. If (which i think you can) collect the skill points before hand and then use them as your guild wants works out what skills they want you to take then it will be alot better.

And if within 3 days (beta length all pvping) a pvp player can unlock 70% of all skills in the game then it will work.

If someone uses the PVP system to be able to unlock every skill with a week. and everything within 2. Then i think it might just bring back what we lost from beta.

Xellos · Jun 25, 2005, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantras

Bugger off yourself. I reserve the right to be bored to tears with this whole argument, and to be aggrivated with your guys inclination to keep bringing it up over and over again. Good luck in your endeavours, and for my part, I hope they succeed so people like you will STFU

Then stop posting, as silly as this sounds, forums are for discussion, if you find one boring, you stop reading it and most likely stop posting it unless for another specific purpose. And what is so bad about bringing things up? The fact that they keep getting brought up should be a sign. Any half-wit can figure out if the facet is still leaking after the plumber came, it's still not completely fixed. If you aren't interested at looking at the facet, then get out of the washroom and leave be.

Secondly, I believe Gaile Gray has said that Anet listens, and if they do, then isn't it technically better to keep constant updated critisizm which brings in new perspectives and new elements? You honestly think they would be better off if everyone kept their mouths shut? Maybe we should have done that when sigils were overpriced then, and put complete faith. Sorry, but if you don't like whine threads, get out. As outrageous as it sounds, some of us do try to use these things to provide better insight on the problems. Do YOU even understand what I'm talking about? That response of yours doesn't give me the impression that you do.

Weezer_Blue · Jun 25, 2005, 12:31 PM // 12:31

If A.Net really does fix this, for what reason? For a handful of people who have stuck around long enough to see it changed? Will the old people come back? And will they buy expansions knowing that A.Net is not as trustworthy in their advertisement department as we thought during the beta? I'll certainly hold off a month and read over stuff before I buy the next expansion. It'll either be "wow!" like it was during beta, or "this blows even more than the first one!"

Xellos · Jun 25, 2005, 12:37 PM // 12:37

If anyone understands supply and demand at heart, then you should understand why as good as Anet is, people are very unforgiving.

Fantras · Jun 25, 2005, 12:38 PM // 12:38

I used to argue against threads like these, so yes, I do care about their content, even now, even though I don't post in retaliation anymore. Honestly, this has been thrown around so much, I haven't seen any new ideas come up. I don't expect you to stop bringing this up. I don't know if you saw, but I conceded that you all have a point, so I expect you to keep bringing it back up. However, I still see the threads, I read the threads to see if anything is new, and since I suffer from verbal diarrhea, I always post something in them.

Now, why is it so bad for me to wish that they stopped? Why do you expect to resurface this age old idea and have another 5 page thread with no new ideas, and not have anybody post anything contradictory? I mean, I actually wished for you to succeed, and you criticize me. What do you want? A horde of people who agree with you and that's it? Well sorry, bud, I don't agree with your point nor will I ever. I do agree that you have every right to try for change and I don't expect you to stop. I sure as hell want you to, however. I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree. You say, "Get out of the washroom." Well I hate to burst your bath-bubble, but I have to exist in this washroom too. And while I am contendedly pissing into a urinal, you are in here laying a huge, stinky dump, and I have to smell it. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

Sanji · Jun 25, 2005, 12:41 PM // 12:41

People who both complain about and defend Guild Wars have a hilarious and ironic thing in common.

People who complain about Guild Wars continue to play and talk about a game that bores and frustrates them, despite knowing that it may very well be futile.

People who defend Guild Wars continue to read and respond to posts that bores and frustrates them, despite knowing that it may very well be futile.

Mormegil · Jun 25, 2005, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Constructive criticism is another thing.
The original poster (a beta-tester who, apparently, always forgets to beta-test his posts) was anything but constructive. He just posted the SAME rants we hear OVER AND OVER by the same 6-7 elitist idiots with too much time to waste on this forum.
Know what? If your criticism isn't helpful then why are you even here. When someone doesn't like a game, he just quits. Bitching over and over and over and writing negative comments everywhere (aka I will win the "I-hate-life" competition) will just show how you can't back up your opinions with solid reasons.

Come on, the mod already edited your title, which virtually means a large slap in the face.

For anyone who doesn't know it, the original title of this thread was "People are stupid, that means you". Talk about constructive criticism, huh? Usually these 6-7 smarty guys post some big BS like this, then reply a little, and when they see their thread is gonna be beaten to death, they just run away.

But they will come back, they always do...

You could find this useful

It's already been posted, but I'm convinced some of these people should definitely watch it some more times.

Xellos · Jun 25, 2005, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantras

I used to argue against threads like these, so yes, I do care about their content, even now, even though I don't post in retaliation anymore. Honestly, this has been thrown around so much, I haven't seen any new ideas come up. I don't expect you to stop bringing this up. I don't know if you saw, but I conceded that you all have a point, so I expect you to keep bringing it back up. However, I still see the threads, I read the threads to see if anything is new, and since I suffer from verbal diarrhea, I always post something in them.

Now, why is it so bad for me to wish that they stopped? Why do you expect to resurface this age old idea and have another 5 page thread with no new ideas, and not have anybody post anything contradictory? I mean, I actually wished for you to succeed, and you criticize me. What do you want? A horde of people who agree with you and that's it? Well sorry, bud, I don't agree with your point nor will I ever. I do agree that you have every right to try for change and I don't expect you to stop. I sure as hell want you to, however. I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree. You say, "Get out of the washroom." Well I hate to burst your bath-bubble, but I have to exist in this washroom too. And while I am contendedly pissing into a urinal, you are in here laying a huge, stinky dump, and I have to smell it. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

1. No new ideas, as in suggestions? Well sorry sir, but I don't see doctors figuring out how to cure cancer even after years of study. It takes time, and any piece of perspective or information helps.

2. So you admit it's your own problem that you HAVE to post in nearly every thread you care about or read. Good to know that people can acknowledge problems without trying to solve them.

3. Age old idea, there is no idea. It's a problem. And problems resurface. The fact that it keeps resurfacing tells you that something is wrong. If you start getting acne for not washing your face, do you just ignore it? I hope not, cause your going to be a giant pimple at that rate.

4. No, I do not believe people will always agree with me, what I do believe, is that they will have a real point. One that doesn't involve them telling me to shut up because they have some kind of health problem. I don't care if you got cancer or aids or whatever sars disease that causes you to post like you do, that's your problem. Clearly the second you posted that all credibility in your request has been killed off. That's like having players tell you to stop winning because they suck too much but they don't want to get better. You, have NO case. You can't even prove that you understand the situation, yet you continue to whine.

5. You don't have to agree on my priviledge to post, only the staff do. Posting about your personal feelings about this isn't persuasive at all. Rather, it just makes you look bad.

6. Agree to disagree? What does that mean? That I continue to post trying to tell you to shut up or leave because your not contributing even in the slightest and that you continue to say you know everything and obviously the world knows everything and that I should shut up because you have some health problem? Sorry, but at this rate, it's only going to lead to trouble.

7. Lastly your attempt to try and retaliate with a analogy fails horribly. I related that a thread was a washroom, and if you feel it stinks, GET OUT. The fact that you have some verbal problem doesn't warrant you to come in and tell people to shut up like your the king. You want people to stop? Stop reading their crap, are you not capable of skipping posts? No one is "forced" to go in this washroom, so get out and use another one if you have to. This is a forum for game discussion, your sick of it, you stop reading and posting.

8. Please give me specific references where my insight has been shown, because quite frankly, I doubt someone said something similar along my lines. Your telling me that this is old, that it has nothing new, well prove it. Show me the previous arguements, and show me how they have the exact same perspective that I'm giving now. I'd be perfectly happy to stop if you can find such references. Otherwise, your the whiner here who is getting old.

Quote:

People who complain about Guild Wars continue to play and talk about a game that bores and frustrates them, despite knowing that it may very well be futile.

I use to think that. Then the whiners somehow convinced Anet to try and fix sigils. I base my faith off that.

Quote:

The original poster (a beta-tester who, apparently, always forgets to beta-test his posts) was anything but constructive. He just posted the SAME rants we hear OVER AND OVER by the same 6-7 elitist idiots with too much time to waste on this forum.

Prove it, give specific links and show how they are similiar. Claiming a statement without even the slightest hint of credibility is the reason why people still complain, you simply cannot even prove you understand what their talking about, let alone have the right to tell them to shut up.

Mormegil · Jun 25, 2005, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

Prove it, give specific links and show how they are similiar. Claiming a statement without even the slightest hint of credibility is the reason why people still complain, you simply cannot even prove you understand what their talking about, let alone have the right to tell them to shut up.

Should I bore people to death and quote every post by that person? No, I shouldn't.
There's an helpful little button which says "show all posts by this user". Try it, and you'll read so many negative (and mostly, destructive and useless) comments by this person you won't even believe it.

Xellos · Jun 25, 2005, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

Should I bore people to death and quote every post by that person? No, I shouldn't.
There's an helpful little button which says "show all posts by this user". Try it, and you'll read so many negative (and mostly, destructive and useless) comments by this person you won't believe it.

No, but you need enough to make a good case. Otherwise, I can call you a noob and get away with it. I don't have to prove anything, I can say I've held halls for 8 hours straight and not have to provide any hint of credibility, and by your logic, people will respect me by that claim alone. Sorry, only people that like to whine about these threads agree with you.

And while there is a point where this gets too negative, it's root comes from the game flaws itself. How I would have loved it if everyone just kept their mouths shut about Arid Sea or Riverside, or about Sigils in general and how their "too expensive" even though people still buy them at the trader for 85k (Remember those guys who said "omfg 20k is zee right price just watch anet will supportz me"). But no, Anet has been responsive. Whether or not the changes are good or bad, all depends on the person. But the fact is, Anet is responsive to large amounts of complaints, hence why there is changes so soon again.

The reason for this thread is to point out how useless the changes were previously, and I can't possibly see you finding proof that old threads existed, since ummm, this thread is bashing at how ineffective Anet's changes are, the "old ideas" which are actually old problems, are just references that show these problems still do exist significantly.

Negative posts are only as negative as you take them. If Anet is a professional business, they'd take what they can, and ignore the crap talk. The fact that players are even committing time trying to show Anet their perspective shows that they care immensely, despite people like you trying to tell them to shut up.

Lastly, the reason most of these threads go down is because posters from both sides resort to flaming eventually and break it down. Rex has said it himself, good thread, good insight, but has to shut down due to people not being tolerable. The fact that some of you can't just ignore and raise yourself higher then the next repeat whiner just shows that your asking for trouble. Look at Fantras' post, it had zero contribution, and forced me to post something almost as meaningless in attempt to try and tell him the forum is not his world. Your post has no meaning in it because you "post the exact same thing over and over". Obviously your the ones who want this to stop, so maybe you should try something different first, because it's clearly not working. Maybe, be credible with your statements first?

Mormegil · Jun 25, 2005, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

No, but you need enough to make a good case.

There are more than enough, and since you're defending that posting trend, you're not the one who decides how many are required. Come on, if you want to check, push that little friendly button.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

Maybe, be credible with your statements first?

Maybe, read my posts first and be careful before writing the answer? Because I guess your credibility is in question sir, not mine.

The simple fact that the previous thread title was "People are stupid, that means you" and it was, of course, edited by a mod, wipes out any possible defense left for the original poster.

"People are stupid, that means you" is a title that shows many things. First, you're an arrogant person. Second, you're a frustrated person. Third, you definitely aren't open-minded. Fourth, you're not contributing with constructive criticism, which is always appreciated, you're just making some noise.

Xellos · Jun 25, 2005, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

There are more than enough, and since you're defending that posting trend, you're not the one who decides how many are required. Come on, if you want to check, push that little friendly button.

Sorry, but telling me to do the work just to support your case, doesn't work. I don't bring the forks and knives to restaurants, you either give me proper utilities, or I don't bother with your restaurant at all, regardless of it's taste.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

Maybe, read my posts first and be careful before writing the answer? Because I guess your credibility is in question sir, not mine.

The simple fact that the previous thread title was "People are stupid, that means you" and it was, of course, edited, wipes out any possible defense left for the original poster.

"People are stupid, that means you" is a title that shows many things. First, you're an arrogant person. Second, you're a frustrated person. Third, you definitely aren't open-minded. Fourth, you're not contributing with constructive criticism, which is always appreciated, you're just making some noise.

And how is mine in question? I did read your first post. Your saying he isn't constructive, and by how? Just a claim? Sorry, as posted above and again, no one gives a damn what you say unless you do the work. I can't read your mind, so stop assuming everyone sees things your way, and bring those references and explain why they are the same. Otherwise, your post is pointless.

Second, I don't care. The fact that he changed it proves that he isn't stupid enough to get banned. The fact that your still using something he changed as your support of him being uncredible is stupid. Maybe he got angry, maybe he was writing it all up in a heat, then he changed it after he cooled down. So what? The fact that he did cool down and change it probably indicates that he isn't coming in guns ablazing. He's expressing his concerns (though by some of you, it's a bad expression) and his doubts to Anets updates. Please find threads that go "the updates sucked" or something along those lines, because quite frankly, as I recall, there weren't alot of updates, so this thread can't be that used up.

1. I see Rex, BlackAce, and Ensign as pretty arrogant at times, but how does that kill off their credibility when they get ****y and smack down some of the people who have no idea what their talking about? Fact is, if you view their content by their personal attitude, then you ain't the type to be reading this in the first place. This is an address to the community and Anet about the OP's disappointment over the recent changes.

2. Frusterated? How would you know? You seem to be arrogant by the fact that you assume and use "golden rules" to determine a posters credibility, not their content for each post. While you can assume all you want, you take it to the extreme, making it sound like those who are frusterated and post in frusteration have 99% chance to make a sucky post.

3. Not Open-Minded. Gotcha. Your using another golden rule without any reference to show that he is not open-minded. So you obviously being the open-minded one, have walked in his shoes, you understand all the balance issues that he does, you understand exactly how casual of a player he is and his real life that affects his gaming schedule, you must know everything, because obviously, claiming someone is not open-minded while showing zero support that you are open-minded, makes you, an open-minded player.

Quote:

Fourth, you're not contributing with constructive criticism, which is always appreciated, you're just making some noise.

4. Really? Because you obviously can claim you belong in Idiot Savants the way your posting. After all, no proof and mild flames really shows your the Bible. I bet you can even tell Ensign his calculations are a waste of space. Oh and while we are at it, you're not contributing to constructive criticism either, your just whining at people saying their whining.

On a side note, does it ever occur to you that umm, since you people always use the same "ITS OLD ITS BORING SHUT UP" type of post, maybe your the ones who need to change in order for the "whiners" to stop? Because clearly, your posts aren't working. Of course not, you wouldn't think that, your the golden rule. You can say McDonalds is healthy and not show one damn picture or a link. And we'd all have to say YES YOU ARE RIGHT.

JoDiamonds · Jun 25, 2005, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

yeah, anet being so responsive is the biggest load of crock I have ever heard.

OK. Let's hear your arguments.

Quote:

1. To please PvE players they add in ale, lol, thats nothing at all. That is pure fluff.

No, it's one small thing. Like Dye, rune, and scroll traders. And their work so far on fixing the economy.

I'm not sure how this affects ANet being responsive or not.

Quote:

2. The entire advertisement of the game was completely false in every way.

Irrelevant.

Quote:

3. Don't wait for them to fix grind because it will never be gone, they will not eliminate it. Fact. PvP quest rewards will take years and years alone to get all the skills.

Please, where do you get your crystal balls? My local supplier went out of business.

Quote:

4. the game is unbalanced, designed that way (PvE rewards your PVP skill)

Bizzarre, nonsensical comment. What does this have to do with balance?
Maybe it does, but you sure haven't explained it. What does this have to do with ANet being responsive?

Quote:

5. The PVP maps offer no replayability just repitition, They have added nothing in the way of PVP offerings since 2 years ago in E34E, besides GVG.

Hmmm. I don't believe you, and at the same time saying that they've added nothing but "Guild vs. Guild" ... what, that's not something?

Quote:

6. The PvE is not replayable unless you have really low standards for games.

Uhhh. OK. That's certainly entirely irrelevant to ANet being responsive, and entirely opinion. I mean, I have replayed it. More than once. I'm not sure how you are claiming I didn't do that.

Quote:

7. The huge ammount of customers they could have had where lost, the ones they have now will not be buying the expansion. Anet's reputation for actually delivering products that follow advertisement and box info is completely sullied in most eyes, and the HARDCORE gamers create word of mouth.

Do you have polling data to back that up? Or any kind of research or surveys besides personal anecdotes?

I might believe it if it was anything besides Some Guy saying so. You could just as easily say your parents are aliens.

And this still doesn't explain why ANet isn't responsive.

Mormegil · Jun 25, 2005, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

Second, I don't care. The fact that he changed it proves that he isn't stupid enough to get banned.

As I said before, reading comprehension is your friend. Reading the posts other people wrote before writing yours would definitely help your point.

This is hilarious. You don't even know that he didn't change it (argh, that would probably make your "he isn't stupid enough" assumption ridiculous, sorry for that), the moderator did. So him not getting banned is just the mod's choice. A mod editing your thread's title doesn't really help your arguments, but I bet you're smart enough to know that!

Next time, read before posting, or people won't even bother replying you.
Nice shot Xellos.

I'm off.

Xellos · Jun 25, 2005, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Clarification In Short Form: The topic poster has a problem with the recent updates, as they're impact has not changed the game enough to be considered a "success" in his book.

Quote:

As I said before, reading comprehension is your friend. Reading the posts other people wrote before writing yours would definitely help your point.

Of course, your ****y reply proves that you obviously can comprehend any and all meanings of the topic and thread. Of course. By the way, did you read all of my posts?

Quote:

This is hilarious. You don't even know that he didn't change it (argh, that would probably make your "he isn't stupid enough" assumption ridiculous, sorry for that), the moderator did. So him not getting banned is just the mod's choice. A mod editing your thread's title doesn't really help your arguments, but I bet you're smart enough to know that!

1. You told me he changed it in your first post, I said it doesn't matter. Obviously you can tell me what I know and don't know, because your Golden Rule boy.

2. A mod editing your thread title tells you to simmer down. I do not see his post being modded I think. So besides the title, everythings fine. I thought people don't judge a book by its cover.

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Next time, read before posting, or people won't even bother replying you.

Big words by someone who can't even display any understanding about what the OP was talking about.

Quote:

Nice shot Xellos.

The best part is, people don't even realize the bullet hit them.

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I'm off.

So in conclusion, when you get back, your whole point is to try and make the OP poster discredible because of a title. Unlike JoDiamonds who presents a decent case like asking for data and such, you just claimed this OP is a joke because of a thread title and moderator involvement. Am I wrong? Is there some HIDDEN meaning behind your posts? One that is so deep, even Kakashi can't see underneath the underneath?

I'll admit, I misinterpreted your post a bit, I didn't think in a million years someone would ever try to discredit someone else on a forum saying "that thread title is so immature, hes a joke". I actually gave you the benefit of the doubt and thought you had a serious point. Obviously the signature of Starkfist is right.